#835: Ben Patrick (KneesOverToesGuy) — 20-Minute Workouts That Produce Wild Results, From Chronic Knee Pain to Dunking Basketballs, Lessons from Charles Poliquin, Bulletproofing the Lower Body, and More
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
Ben Patrick, better known as "Knees Over Toes Guy," joins Tim Ferriss to discuss his revolutionary approach to knee rehabilitation and joint health. After years of debilitating knee pain, multiple surgeries, and painkiller dependency, Patrick discovered methods inspired by Charles Poliquin that challenged conventional fitness wisdom - particularly the sacred rule of "never let your knees go over your toes." (05:53) Through backwards sled dragging, deep squats, and progressive strength training in full range of motion, he transformed from having a sub-20 inch vertical jump to achieving a documented 42-inch leap. (00:44)
• The episode explores Patrick's three core training principles: forward and backward movement, ground-up strengthening, and developing strength through mobility - all designed to create balanced ability throughout the body.
Speakers
Ben Patrick (Knees Over Toes Guy)
Ben Patrick is the founder of Athletic Truth Group (ATG), an online and brick-and-mortar training system focused on rehabilitative strength and joint health. After suffering from chronic knee and shin pain since age 12, including multiple surgeries and painkiller dependency, he rebuilt his body using unconventional methods and went from a sub-20 inch vertical jump to a documented 42-inch leap. He has become a social media phenomenon, coaching thousands through his revolutionary approach to knee health and movement.
Tim Ferriss
Tim Ferriss is the host of The Tim Ferriss Show, author of multiple bestselling books including The 4-Hour Workweek and The 4-Hour Body, and a successful angel investor. He's known for deconstructing world-class performers across various fields to extract actionable insights and has invested in companies like Uber, Facebook, Shopify, and Duolingo.
Key Takeaways
Challenge Conventional Fitness Wisdom Through Personal Experimentation
The fitness industry's sacred rule of "never let your knees go over your toes" was debunked through Patrick's journey. (05:58) This rule originated from 1970s exercise science studies showing increased knee pressure in that position, but it ignored the functional reality that we load our knees over our toes every time we walk downstairs. Patrick's transformation came from embracing this position through backwards sled dragging and deep squats, proving that avoiding natural movement patterns can actually increase injury risk. The key insight is that our bodies adapt to the positions and ranges of motion we regularly train - if we avoid certain positions, we become vulnerable when life demands them.
Start with Pain-Free Range of Motion and Progress Gradually
Patrick's rehabilitation approach emphasizes working within your current pain-free range of motion rather than pushing through discomfort. (08:23) When he couldn't control a normal 6-inch stair step without knee pain, he started with just a couple of inches of controlled stepping motion. This principle applies to all exercises - if you can't do a full range squat, start with elevated heels and counterbalancing weight. The progression is more important than the starting point, and small consistent improvements compound over time.
Implement the Three Core Training Principles
Patrick's entire system revolves around three fundamental principles that restore natural body balance. (67:02) First is forward and backward movement (like sled work), second is training from the ground up (strengthening lower legs before upper legs), and third is developing strength through mobility. These principles address the imbalances created by modern life and conventional training, where we typically neglect backward movement, undertrain our lower legs, and separate strength from flexibility training.
Embrace Minimal Effective Dose Training
Patrick works out only twice per week for 45 minutes and has maintained this for years while continuing to dunk basketballs at age 34. (54:20) His mother, at 71, does 10-15 minutes daily and can sprint impressively after eight years of consistent training. The key insight is that consistency with minimal volume often produces better results than sporadic high-volume training. One to two sets of key exercises, performed consistently, can maintain and even improve athletic performance while allowing time for other life priorities.
Focus on Long-Term Integrity Over Short-Term Gains
Both speakers emphasize the importance of maintaining integrity in business and content creation, even when it means leaving money on the table. (73:37) Ferriss walked away from potentially tens of millions in supplement sales to maintain trust with his audience, while Patrick refuses to create clickbait titles or make exaggerated claims. The principle extends beyond business: ask yourself what continuing a current behavior looks like if you increase it by 2% each week for three years. This compound effect perspective helps identify when you're on a dangerous trajectory before it's too late.
Statistics & Facts
- Patrick went from a sub-20 inch vertical jump to a documented 42-inch leap through his training methods. (00:44)
- At Patrick's gym, he coached over 100,000 times on sled exercises across thousands of group training sessions with zero injuries reported from sled work. (12:00)
- Patrick estimates that 99% of basketball teams don't squat with full range of motion, highlighting how widespread the "knees over toes" avoidance has become in sports training. (13:55)
