#47: Why Narcissists Rise to Power and What Self-Aware Leaders Do Differently
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this compelling episode of the StoryBrand podcast, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed sit down with leadership advisor and former White House speechwriter Les Corba to explore the critical balance between confidence and narcissism in leadership. (01:03) The conversation delves deep into how self-awareness serves as the foundation for effective leadership and authentic messaging. Les shares insights from his decades of experience working with CEOs, boards, and public figures, drawing from real-world examples like Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, and the catastrophic failures of leaders at Enron and Lehman Brothers. (05:55) The discussion reveals how narcissistic leaders can achieve remarkable results while simultaneously causing tremendous damage, and more importantly, how leaders can cultivate the self-awareness needed to harness their drive without falling into destructive patterns. (24:07) The episode also addresses modern challenges to self-awareness, including social media validation and AI-generated flattery that can create dangerous blind spots for today's leaders.
- Main themes: The episode focuses on distinguishing between productive confidence and destructive narcissism, the importance of self-awareness in leadership effectiveness, and practical strategies for maintaining clarity in an age of digital noise and constant validation.
Speakers
Donald Miller
Donald Miller is the CEO of StoryBrand and bestselling author of "Building a StoryBrand." He's a renowned marketing expert who has helped thousands of businesses clarify their messaging through the StoryBrand Framework, transforming how companies communicate with their customers and grow their businesses.
Kyle Reed
Kyle Reed serves as co-host of the StoryBrand podcast and works alongside Donald Miller in developing clear, effective messaging strategies. He brings practical insights and thoughtful questions that help unpack complex leadership and communication concepts for business professionals.
Les Corba
Les Corba is a leadership advisor and former White House speechwriter with decades of experience helping CEOs, boards, and public figures develop self-awareness and effective communication. He's the author of "Trust" and "Aware: The Power of Seeing Yourself Clearly," and has worked extensively in the oil and gas industry, placing top executives and advising leaders through congressional hearings and major corporate challenges.
Key Takeaways
Distinguish Between Productive and Destructive Narcissism
Les Corba introduces a crucial distinction that every leader must understand: the difference between productive narcissists who achieve great things while being difficult to work with, and destructive narcissists who are purely self-serving. (02:06) Productive narcissists like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk have grandiose self-belief that enables extraordinary achievements, but they often possess enough self-awareness to mitigate their destructive tendencies. Jobs eventually partnered with Tim Cook to handle operations, while Musk openly acknowledges his pathological optimism and its potential downsides. (09:56) The key is recognizing that some level of narcissistic confidence is necessary for leadership—you need to believe you're the right person to lead—but it must be balanced with genuine self-awareness and concern for others beyond yourself.
Create a Feedback Culture to Combat Blind Spots
Leaders at higher levels paradoxically become less self-aware as they gain more power and success, making intentional feedback mechanisms essential. (04:56) Les emphasizes that toxic leaders surround themselves with sycophants who only tell them what they want to hear, creating dangerous blind spots that can lead to catastrophic failures like those seen at Enron and Lehman Brothers. (05:55) The solution involves deliberately cultivating relationships with people who can speak truth to power and creating formal feedback systems like 360-degree reviews. This requires vulnerability from leaders—starting conversations by acknowledging your own flaws first, which gives others permission to provide honest feedback about areas for improvement.
Combat Digital Validation and AI Flattery
Modern leaders face unprecedented challenges to self-awareness through constant digital validation and AI systems that provide overwhelmingly positive feedback. (24:47) Les warns about the "AI psychosis" phenomenon where leaders receive constant flattery from AI tools, combined with social media validation, creating a dangerous spiral away from reality. (27:45) The prefrontal cortex, which handles self-reflection and moral reasoning, becomes compromised by this constant digital noise. Leaders must actively create space for solitude and self-reflection, potentially including "think weeks" like Bill Gates practiced, and consciously limit exposure to validation-seeking behaviors that crowd out genuine self-awareness.
Lead with Purpose-Driven Messaging
Effective leaders must communicate with unashamed clarity about their organization's purpose and value to society, even in the face of criticism. (16:23) Les uses the oil and gas industry as an example, noting how for years leaders were defensive about their work due to climate concerns, but now successful leaders clearly articulate that "energy is life" and essential for human flourishing. (17:47) This principle applies beyond energy—leaders in capitalism, for instance, shouldn't apologize for the system but should clearly communicate its benefits while acknowledging areas for improvement. The key is having passion around purpose, mission, and values that motivates employees and provides clear direction for stakeholders.
Build Balanced Self-Awareness Through Strengths and Weaknesses
True self-awareness requires understanding both your blind spots and your superpowers, avoiding the trap of either pure self-criticism or inflated self-regard. (27:31) Les advocates for identifying your top three personality liabilities while equally emphasizing your strengths and capabilities. (27:53) This balanced approach prevents the dangerous spiral of pure self-analysis while ensuring you address areas that could derail your leadership. The goal isn't to eliminate weaknesses entirely but to be aware of them and create systems to mitigate their impact, while simultaneously leaning into your strengths to create maximum positive impact for your organization and the people you serve.
Statistics & Facts
- Leaders at higher organizational levels believe they have high self-awareness but actually demonstrate the lowest levels of awareness. (04:56) Les Corba referenced this paradox when explaining how the c-suite and top executives are most susceptible to blind spots despite their confidence in their self-knowledge.
- The 2008 financial crisis resulted in trillions of dollars in lost value and untold suffering for millions globally, largely due to a few narcissistic leaders who surrounded themselves with yes-men. (05:55) Corba specifically cited the Lehman Brothers CEO as an example of how lack of self-awareness in leadership can have catastrophic consequences for humanity.
- Enron was the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history at the time of its collapse, demonstrating how leadership failures in both personal and expertise trust can destroy even massive corporations. (07:43) Les witnessed this firsthand in Houston and used it as a case study for how leaders must guard their currency of trust very carefully.
