RWH065: Joyful Excellence w/ Brad Stulberg
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this engaging episode, William Green welcomes back bestselling author Brad Stulberg to discuss his new book "The Way of Excellence: A Guide to True Greatness & Deep Satisfaction in a Chaotic World." (01:27) The conversation explores how Brad became obsessed with the pursuit of excellence and developed a comprehensive philosophy around building a meaningful life through sustainable high performance. Drawing heavily from Robert Pirsig's influential work on quality, Brad presents excellence as "involved engagement" - caring deeply about something worthwhile that aligns with your values. (18:49) The discussion delves into practical frameworks for overcoming modern distractions, building consistent daily practices, and creating a life that balances intensity with joy. Throughout the conversation, Brad emphasizes that true excellence requires both fierce discipline and fierce self-kindness, positioning the pursuit as a spiritual and philosophical journey rather than just tactical achievement. The episode provides actionable insights from Brad's interviews with hundreds of world-class performers across diverse fields.
Speakers
William Green
William Green is the author of "Richer, Wiser, Happier" and hosts the podcast of the same name where he interviews the world's greatest investors. He explores how to win in markets and life, conducting masterclasses and organizing retreats for investors to discuss investment philosophy and life principles.
Brad Stulberg
Brad Stulberg is a bestselling author and performance coach who has written three acclaimed books: "The Way of Excellence," "The Practice of Groundedness," and "Masters of Change." He has interviewed hundreds of world-class performers across various fields and serves as a performance coach helping individuals build sustainable excellence. His work focuses on exploring how to build rich, meaningful lives that align with one's values through practical frameworks and evidence-based approaches.
Key Takeaways
Excellence Requires Both Guts and Vulnerability
True excellence demands what Brad calls "involved engagement" - caring deeply about something worthwhile that aligns with your values. (22:02) This isn't just about working hard; it requires the courage to be vulnerable because when you give something your all, you open yourself up to the possibility of failure with no excuses. Brad explains that the "cool kids" who never tried in school weren't actually cool - they were insecure and scared of failing. Excellence requires stepping into the arena knowing you might get hurt, but doing it anyway because the pursuit itself transforms who you become. This vulnerability creates intimacy with your craft, which is essential for achieving mastery.
Design Your Environment to Support Excellence
Excellence requires intentional design of your physical and digital environment to create what Brad calls the right "gravitational pull." (32:13) This means eliminating algorithmic mass distraction - those digital slot machines in our pockets that provide existential validation through likes, comments, and notifications. Brad structures his physical workspace with objects that inspire quality: first-edition books from mentors like Robert Pirsig, banners that say "give a damn," and art that reminds him of his values. Most importantly, he removes all digital devices from his workspace during deep work sessions, placing his phone in another part of the house entirely to eliminate even the cognitive load of resisting temptation.
Balance is an Illusion - Focus on Seasons and Identity Houses
Rather than trying to achieve perfect balance across all life domains, Brad advocates thinking of your identity like a house with different rooms. (42:28) You don't need to spend equal time in each room, but you need to ensure no important room gets "moldy" from complete neglect. This allows for seasons of intense focus on one area while maintaining minimum effective doses in others. For example, during a period of building a business, you might exercise three days a week instead of five, but never completely abandon health. The key is zooming out - successful people often appear unbalanced in any given moment but achieve balance across the totality of their lives through different seasons of emphasis.
Consistency on Bad Days Matters More Than Great Days
What separates excellent performers is what Brad calls "raising the floor" - performing better on your worst days rather than just having spectacular peak performances. (01:07:50) Great days are magical and hard to engineer, but bad days offer significant agency. The compound effect of minimizing losses during rough periods often outweighs occasional spectacular gains. This applies whether you're an investor minimizing losses in difficult markets or a writer still producing work during uninspired periods. Brad emphasizes showing up consistently with a non-negotiable commitment to the process, understanding that "little by little becomes a lot" through the mathematical power of consistency over time.
Rest and Renewal Are Integral Parts of Performance
High performers must stop thinking of rest as separate from their work and instead view it as an integral component of excellence. (53:37) Brad cites Stanford research showing that just a 10-minute walk improves creativity by 40-60%, and many breakthrough insights occur during seemingly "unproductive" moments like showers or commutes. The idea for his book came during a walk when he was stuck on a completely different project. Athletes understand this principle through scheduled recovery days, and cognitive workers need equivalent "rest days" built into their programs. Brad personally works six days a week, finding that seven days diminishes work quality twofold despite the additional time, while five days feels insufficient for his obsessive nature.
Statistics & Facts
- Stanford research shows that just a 10-minute walk improves creativity by between 40-60%, as mentioned by Brad when discussing the importance of taking breaks for problem-solving and insight generation. (59:12)
- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was rejected by 121 publishers before finally being published in 1974, demonstrating the persistence required for breakthrough work, as Brad noted when discussing Robert Pirsig's influence. (05:02)
- Brad has read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance easily 15 times and named his daughter Lila after Robert Pirsig's sequel work, showing the profound impact these philosophical ideas have had on his life and thinking. (05:14)
