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Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
In this episode of The School of Greatness, Lewis Howes sits down with Vanessa Van Edwards, behavioral researcher and author of "Cues," to explore the science behind charismatic communication. (01:09) Edwards shares groundbreaking research showing that charisma isn't about being the loudest person in the room—it's about mastering the perfect balance between warmth and competence. The conversation reveals how our body language, vocal tone, and word choice either enroll people in our vision or push them away, often without us realizing it.
Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral researcher and founder of Science of People, a human behavior research lab. She's the bestselling author of "Captivate" and "Cues" and has been featured in major media outlets for her expertise in nonverbal communication and social skills. As a recovering awkward person and introvert who overcame social anxiety, she's dedicated her career to helping others decode the secret language of human interaction through science-backed research.
Lewis Howes is the host of The School of Greatness podcast and New York Times bestselling author of multiple books including "The Greatness Mindset" and "Make Money Easy." A former professional athlete turned entrepreneur, he's built his platform around helping people overcome limitations and achieve their full potential through authentic communication and personal development.
The most compelling people possess a perfect blend of warmth (trustworthiness) and competence (reliability). (12:04) Very smart people often make the mistake of showing up as all competent, trying to impress with numbers and facts, but they're perceived as cold and intimidating. Conversely, highly warm people are seen as likable but not credible. Edwards explains that all people problems stem from an imbalance between warmth and competence signals. Practical Application: Before important meetings or presentations, consciously plan to demonstrate both qualities—share your expertise while also showing genuine care for others' needs.
Research shows that sprinkling achievement-oriented words like "win," "succeed," "master," and "greatness" into your communication can dramatically improve others' performance and motivation. (29:09) In one study, participants who read directions containing these words performed better, worked longer, and enjoyed their tasks more. Edwards emphasizes that even reading these words can change our dopamine and testosterone levels. Practical Application: Audit your important emails and replace neutral words with achievement-oriented language—instead of saying "complete the project," say "master this challenge" or "win with this initiative."
When we see social rejection cues like eye rolls, sighs, or distancing behavior, our field of vision increases and our amygdala activates, making it impossible to think clearly. (04:14) However, UCLA research by Matthew Lieberman shows that simply labeling these cues—saying "that was an eye roll" or "that's contempt"—immediately calms the amygdala and restores cognitive control. Practical Application: In challenging conversations, mentally label negative cues you observe rather than letting them trigger an emotional response—this gives you back control of your physiology and the interaction.
When people can't see your hands, their brain has difficulty trusting you. (19:04) Edwards' analysis of 495 Shark Tank pitches revealed that successful entrepreneurs consistently showed their hands through gestures and greetings, while unsuccessful ones hid their hands in pockets, behind their backs, or held props. Research shows gestures carry more weight than words and help lower cognitive load, making you more fluent and competent. Practical Application: Start video calls with an open-palm wave, keep your hands visible during presentations, and use purposeful gestures to emphasize key points rather than hiding your hands.
The distance between you and others sends powerful trust signals before you even speak. (16:45) Being too close (intimate zone: 0-18 inches) can make people uncomfortable, while the social zone (18 inches to 4 feet) creates the ideal balance for professional interactions. Edwards notes that many people make the mistake of sitting too close to their cameras on video calls, which unconsciously signals they want intimacy too quickly. Practical Application: Position yourself 18 inches to 3 feet from your camera during video calls, and be mindful of space when entering rooms—walk from public to personal to social zones rather than jumping straight into someone's personal space.