Let’s Make The World Wildly Better: Rutger Bregman On Moral Ambition
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this powerful episode, Dutch historian and author Rutger Bregman shares his vision for addressing our current crisis of meaning through "moral ambition" - the will to use your privilege, resources, and human capital to build a legacy that truly matters. (08:00) The conversation explores how approximately 25% of workers in modern developed economies believe their jobs are socially useless, creating an enormous waste of talent when we face existential challenges like climate change, AI risks, and pandemic threats. (10:45)
- Core discussion centers on transforming our honor codes from prioritizing property, power and prestige to making doing good prestigious again, drawing lessons from successful historical movements like British abolitionism
Speakers
Rutger Bregman
Rutger Bregman is a Dutch historian and bestselling author who gained international recognition for confronting Davos billionaires about tax avoidance. He is the co-founder of The School for Moral Ambition, an organization dedicated to redirecting talent from socially useless jobs toward addressing humanity's greatest challenges. Bregman is the author of several acclaimed books including "Humankind" and his latest work "Moral Ambition," and has become one of the most compelling moral philosophers and public intellectuals working today.
Key Takeaways
Transform Honor Codes to Make Doing Good Prestigious
Historical movements like British abolitionism succeeded by changing the incentive structure and making virtue fashionable rather than simply shaming opponents. (15:02) As Bregman explains, all successful moral movements shared one thing in common: they made doing good more prestigious. The American Freshman Survey shows how dramatically our values have shifted - in the 1960s, 90% of students prioritized developing a meaningful philosophy of life over making money, while today those numbers have completely flipped. (18:24) This demonstrates that honor codes are cultural artifacts that can change, not fixed human nature.
Focus on Results Over Moral Purity
British abolitionists succeeded through pragmatism, like highlighting that 20% of British sailors were dying on slave voyages - a statistic that appealed to politicians' self-interest rather than moral arguments. (38:21) Modern movements often fail by demanding ideological purity rather than building broad coalitions. The lesson is to be "laser focused on actually achieving results" rather than maintaining moral superiority, as people currently suffering don't care about your moral righteousness - they want you to actually win.
Reject "Follow Your Passion" for Strategic Impact
Bregman advocates the "Gandalf-Frodo model" - like Gandalf telling Frodo about the urgent mission rather than asking about his passions, we should focus on what's most sizable, solvable, and sorely neglected. (50:51) The story of Rob Mather, who accidentally saw a documentary about a burned child and eventually founded one of the world's most effective charities (saving lives for $5,000 each through malaria bed nets), demonstrates how passion develops through engagement rather than preceding it. Strategic prioritization leads to greater impact than following initial interests.
Build Broad Coalitions on Factory Farming
Factory farming represents our era's greatest moral catastrophe, with 80 billion animals slaughtered annually and farmed animals weighing seven times more than all wild animals combined. (68:01) However, success requires welcoming all allies - those motivated by health, environment, economics, or animal welfare - rather than demanding vegan purity. Even meat-eaters who oppose factory farming should be welcomed into the movement, following the abolitionist model of building the broadest possible coalition focused on changing the system rather than individual consumption choices.
Channel Individual Crisis into Collective Action
The widespread crisis of meaning - where people feel stuck in socially useless jobs - actually creates opportunity for moral ambition. (25:00) Rather than seeking easier lives through mindfulness or self-help, we should embrace the difficulty of meaningful work. As Bregman notes, studying great moral pioneers reveals they weren't relaxed - "they were working their ass off" and paid substantial prices but lived lives worth remembering. The solution to existential emptiness is binding yourself to something larger than personal desires.
Statistics & Facts
- Approximately 25% of workers in modern developed economies believe their jobs are socially useless, which is five times the unemployment rate. (10:45) This represents an enormous waste of talent when humanity faces existential challenges.
- Factory farming slaughters 80 billion animals annually - it takes only one and a half years to slaughter as many animals as the total number of humans who have ever lived (117 billion). (68:01)
- American students' values have completely reversed since the 1960s: 90% once prioritized developing a meaningful philosophy of life over making money, but today those percentages have flipped. (18:24)
