The Brand Builder's Playbook // Smart Spend: Mastering Media Mix for Maximum Impact // With Damon Berger (GAP)
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this seventh episode of The Brand Builder's Playbook, hosts Jim Stengel and Ryan Barker, along with guest co-host Kate Lamberton, explore the art and science of marketing mix modeling (MMM) with Damon Berger, Head of Consumer Digital Engagement at Gap Inc. (24:01) The conversation dives deep into how brands can balance short-term performance marketing with long-term brand building, reduce waste in their media spend, and make every marketing dollar work harder. (24:36) Damon shares insights on how Gap is revitalizing its iconic brands by staying true to their DNA while remaining culturally relevant and agile in today's fast-changing market.
- Key themes include the integration of brand building into ROI measurement, the importance of consumer-centric marketing mix modeling, and the challenge of balancing performance marketing with brand equity investment
Speakers
Jim Stengel
Former Chief Marketing Officer at Procter & Gamble who pioneered marketing ROI practices at the company and established communities of practice for marketing measurement. He helped initiate P&G's journey toward becoming a leader in marketing mix modeling and measurement analytics.
Ryan Barker
Co-founder and leader at Bera, a company specializing in marketing mix modeling and brand measurement. He has published research demonstrating how brand-led investment creates multiplier effects on performance marketing and helps companies avoid the "doom loop" of diminishing returns.
Kate Lamberton
Academic researcher and professor who studies marketing measurement, consumer behavior, and brand valuation. She brings scholarly perspective to marketing mix modeling, attribution, and the challenges of quantifying brand impact in academic and practical settings.
Damon Berger
Head of Consumer Digital Engagement at Gap Inc., with extensive experience across multiple industries including Twentieth Century Fox and Mattel. He specializes in bringing ROI efficiency to marketing spend allocation and has been instrumental in Gap's brand reinvigoration strategy over the past year.
Key Takeaways
Start with Consumer-Centric Measurement, Not Just Financial ROI
Damon emphasized that marketing mix modeling should be viewed as "a scorecard on how you're doing with your consumers" rather than just a financial efficiency tool. (22:45) While CFOs naturally focus on return on advertising spend (ROAS), the most valuable insights come from understanding which channels and strategies are driving authentic consumer response and brand health. This approach helps marketers make decisions that build long-term brand equity while delivering measurable results. Rather than viewing MMM purely through a cost-efficiency lens, successful brands use it to understand consumer behavior patterns and optimize for both immediate performance and sustained brand strength.
Align Internal Stakeholders Before Implementing MMM
One of the biggest challenges in marketing mix modeling isn't technical—it's organizational. (22:36) Damon highlighted that "your finance counterparts will have one version of looking at an MMM, your brand counterparts will have another version." Success requires proactive alignment conversations with stakeholders across finance, brand, and operations teams before implementing the model. This means educating finance teams on the long-term value of brand investment, helping brand teams understand performance metrics, and establishing shared definitions of success. Without this alignment, even the most sophisticated MMM will fail to drive meaningful business decisions.
Brand Investment Multiplies Performance Marketing Effectiveness
The conversation reinforced that brand building and performance marketing aren't opposing forces—they're synergistic. (34:34) Damon noted that "as we've invested more in our brands, their actual overall ROAS actually increasing." This aligns with Ryan's research showing brand-led investment creates a multiplier effect on performance marketing. When brands starve upper-funnel brand investment to maximize short-term ROAS, they enter what Ryan calls the "doom loop"—needing to spend increasingly more on performance marketing to achieve the same results. The most effective approach treats brand building as fuel that makes all other marketing activities more efficient and effective.
Build a Culture of Curiosity and Data-Driven Decision Making
Gap's success stems from what Damon calls "a culture of curiosity" where CEO Richard Dixon consistently asks "what if, why not?" (32:36) This mindset enables the organization to be both data-driven and creative, using MMM as a guidepost while not being trapped by it. The key is treating marketing mix modeling as one tool in a broader toolkit, combining quantitative insights with consumer understanding, cultural trends, and creative intuition. Organizations that successfully implement MMM view it as a response to curiosity rather than a threat to creativity, enabling them to "constantly disrupt ourselves before we are disrupted."
Stay True to Brand DNA While Modernizing Execution
When asked for his key advice, Damon immediately emphasized: "you have to stay true to what your brands are." (41:53) Gap's turnaround success comes from rediscovering and modernizing their core brand DNA—Gap's connection to music, dance, and culture, and Banana Republic's association with adventure and discovery. This approach creates nostalgic rediscovery for existing fans while introducing new audiences to authentic brand values. The strategy involves "celebrating it and modernizing it and bringing it to audiences in new and unexpected ways" rather than chasing trends that don't align with brand heritage. This authenticity becomes even more crucial in content creation, where consumers have highly sensitive "BS meters" for inauthentic brand expressions.
Statistics & Facts
- Gap Inc.'s stock price has doubled over the past two years, reflecting the success of their brand reinvigoration strategy and consumer-focused approach to marketing measurement. (20:18)
- According to Kate's research, trust in higher education has declined from the mid-40s percent in 2015 to the 30s percent today, though with some recent upticks. (03:43)
- Ryan's research demonstrates that brand-led investment creates a multiplier effect on performance marketing, helping companies avoid the "doom loop" where they need to spend $200 tomorrow to get the same results they achieved with $100 today. (18:11)
