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Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
This Plain English podcast episode explores the alarming decline in American students' mathematical abilities, featuring reporting from The Atlantic and The Argument alongside academic research. (01:46) The University of California San Diego recently reported a 30-fold increase in students needing remedial math courses, with many straight-A high school students unable to solve elementary problems like "seven plus two equals six plus what?" (02:32) This crisis extends beyond UCSD, with math scores declining nationally and internationally over the past decade despite rising grades - a phenomenon the hosts call "achievement deflation" paired with grade inflation.
• Main Theme: The episode examines why math achievement is plummeting while grades continue to rise, exploring policy changes, technological distractions, cultural shifts in educational expectations, and the weakening of accountability systems that once drove improvement in American schools.
Derek Thompson is the host of Plain English and a staff writer at The Atlantic. He covers economics, technology, and culture, bringing complex topics to mainstream audiences through accessible analysis and storytelling.
Rose Horowitch is a writer for The Atlantic who authored the article "American Kids Can't Do Math." Her reporting focuses on education policy and student achievement trends in American schools.
Kelsey Piper writes for The Argument, an online magazine, and has extensively covered education reform including the "Mississippi miracle." She provides analysis on policy effectiveness and educational accountability systems.
Joshua Goodman is an associate professor of education and economics at Boston University and a former high school math teacher. His research focuses on education policy, school accountability systems, and student achievement outcomes.
Modern American education faces a fundamental crisis where grades continue rising while actual student achievement declines. (03:48) As Derek Thompson explains, "we are giving more and more A's to students who are learning less and less." This phenomenon extends from elementary schools through Harvard, where 60% of grades are now A's compared to 25% twenty years ago. (25:27) The disconnect creates a false sense of academic success while students lack fundamental skills, as evidenced by UCSD's straight-A students who cannot perform middle school math problems.
The transition from No Child Left Behind's accountability era to the Every Student Succeeds Act fundamentally changed educational incentives. (09:07) Professor Joshua Goodman explains that Obama's 2011 waivers allowing states to escape federal testing requirements, later codified in 2015, removed the "anchor between grades and objective measures of student achievement." (23:00) This policy shift coincided with declining math scores, suggesting that accountability systems, despite their flaws, provided crucial incentives for maintaining educational standards.
The movement toward test-optional college admissions has created unintended consequences throughout the education system. (15:15) As standardized tests lost importance, grades became more crucial for college admission, increasing pressure for grade inflation. Kelsey Piper notes that without external testing accountability, "the relationship between grades and readiness just breaks down entirely." (15:24) This creates a feedback loop where high schools can award high grades without ensuring actual learning, since students no longer face standardized assessment consequences.
Beyond policy changes, a cultural shift has emerged where students, parents, and educators expect high grades regardless of achievement. (28:39) Rose Horowitch reports that professors describe students "crying because they just expected an A" and saying "I'm an A student. I don't understand how I would not be getting an A now." (28:56) This cultural expectation, combined with lack of accountability mechanisms, creates enormous pressure on educators to award grades based on effort rather than mastery, fundamentally undermining educational effectiveness.
Mississippi's dramatic improvement in fourth-grade reading scores demonstrates that targeted reform can work even in disadvantaged communities. (30:17) The state implemented a comprehensive approach combining phonics instruction, teacher training, strong curricula, and crucially, a requirement that students pass a basic reading test to advance from third to fourth grade. (31:18) As Piper explains, this created "countervailing pressure" where "teachers don't have the option of being nice" because state-mandated consequences ensure everyone works toward actual student learning rather than grade inflation.