Search for a command to run...

Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Behavioral scientist Katy Milkman joins Masters of Scale to share evidence-based strategies for creating lasting change in both personal and professional contexts. (00:47) The episode explores why most resolutions fail and introduces practical tools like temptation bundling, fresh starts, and nudges to help ambitious professionals achieve their goals. (02:33) Milkman discusses how 40% of premature deaths are due to behavioral choices we could change, highlighting the massive impact of better decision-making on longevity and success. (08:41)
Katy Milkman is a behavioral scientist at the Wharton School and bestselling author of "How to Change." She co-founded the Behavior Change for Good initiative and has collaborated with Nobel Prize winner Danny Kahneman in the field of behavioral economics. Her research focuses on understanding systematic decision-making mistakes and developing science-based solutions to help people create lasting positive changes in their lives and organizations.
Jeff Berman serves as the host of Masters of Scale. He brings leadership experience from various organizational roles and focuses on helping ambitious professionals achieve mastery in their fields through practical insights and actionable strategies.
Milkman's research reveals that combining something you dread (like exercise) with something you crave (like audiobooks) can transform your experience and create lasting change. (01:22) This strategy works by changing the psychological equation of impulsivity, making you look forward to activities you'd otherwise avoid. For example, only allowing yourself to listen to engaging audiobooks while at the gym can turn dreaded workouts into anticipated experiences. The key is pairing necessary but unpleasant tasks with guilty pleasures to create positive associations and reduce resistance to beneficial behaviors.
Research shows that 40% of Americans set resolutions on January 1st, and similar motivation spikes occur at the start of weeks, months, and after birthdays. (10:15) However, fresh starts only provide temporary motivation lasting until the novelty wears off. The most effective use of fresh start moments is for "one-and-done" actions like setting up automatic 401k contributions or scheduling important health screenings. For goals requiring sustained effort over time, you need additional behavioral science tools beyond just initial motivation to maintain progress through February and beyond.
Before pursuing any goal, Milkman recommends conducting a "premortem" - thinking through what could cause you to fail before you even start. (12:58) The major obstacles to change include impulsivity, procrastination, laziness (seeking path of least resistance), lack of confidence, and negative social influences. By identifying which obstacles are most likely to derail your specific goals, you can proactively develop targeted solutions using behavioral science principles rather than relying solely on willpower or motivation.
Setting a goal like "exercise more regularly" is insufficient for creating change - you need a detailed plan with specific if-then statements. (15:51) Effective planning includes exactly when you'll pursue your goal (Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays at 5PM), for how long (30 minutes), what specific activity you'll do (cardio workout on elliptical), and how you'll overcome logistical barriers (arranging childcare). The more detailed your implementation plan, the higher your chances of follow-through because you eliminate decision fatigue and remove excuses in the moment.
When Milkman's team worked with Crisis Text Line volunteers who had 200-hour yearly commitments, simply reframing this as "4 hours per week" increased productivity by 8%. (23:32) This demonstrates the goal gradient effect - people are more motivated when they can see proximal progress toward completion. For organizational leaders, breaking large annual or quarterly goals into weekly or daily components helps team members experience regular wins and maintain motivation. Instead of vague expectations, provide concrete micro-goals that people can achieve quickly and build momentum toward larger objectives.