Resurrecting dire wolves is just the beginning for Colossal Biosciences’ Ben Lamm
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this encore episode of Rapid Response, host Bob Safian speaks with Ben Lamm, co-founder and CEO of Colossal Biosciences, about the startup's groundbreaking achievement: bringing back the extinct dire wolf through advanced genetic engineering. (02:00) Lamm explains how his team used 13,000-year-old tooth DNA and a 72,000-year-old skull to create dire wolf puppies through a process called "functional de-extinction" - genetically modifying gray wolves with dire wolf traits rather than true cloning. (05:27) The conversation covers the ethics of de-extinction, Colossal's $10 billion valuation despite having no revenue, and their broader mission to address the looming biodiversity crisis where we could lose 50% of species by 2050. (27:08) Beyond dire wolves, Colossal is working on woolly mammoths, Tasmanian tigers, and conservation efforts for endangered species like the Northern White Rhino. • Main themes include cutting-edge genetic engineering, conservation technology, ethical debates around "playing God," and the intersection of science, business, and environmental preservation
Speakers
Ben Lamm
Ben Lamm is the co-founder and CEO of Colossal Biosciences, a startup valued at $10 billion that focuses on de-extinction and genetic conservation technologies. A serial tech entrepreneur with a background in software companies, Lamm transitioned into synthetic biology after consulting with Harvard geneticist George Church about opportunities in the field. Despite not being a scientist himself, he has assembled world-class teams including experts like Beth Shapiro, the leading ancient DNA expert, and has attracted celebrity investors including Tom Brady and Peter Jackson.
Bob Safian
Bob Safian is the host of Rapid Response, exploring cutting-edge innovations and their implications for business and society. He brings extensive experience in business journalism and interviewing leaders at the forefront of technological and scientific breakthroughs.
Key Takeaways
Functional De-Extinction Is Engineering, Not True Cloning
Ben Lamm emphasizes that what Colossal does is "functional de-extinction" rather than true cloning of extinct species. (05:15) The process involves analyzing ancient DNA from fossils, identifying the specific genes that made a dire wolf unique from its closest living relative (gray wolves), and then genetically engineering those traits into modern gray wolf cells. The result is essentially a genetically modified gray wolf with dire wolf characteristics, not a pure clone. This distinction is crucial for understanding both the scientific achievement and the ethical debates surrounding their work. For professionals, this illustrates the importance of precise communication about complex innovations and managing expectations about what technology can actually deliver versus what popular imagination might assume.
Build Your Own Ethical Framework Rather Than Wait for Industry Standards
Rather than waiting for industry-wide regulations, Colossal proactively established their own ethical guidelines. (34:28) Lamm explains they've decided not to work on nonhuman primates, Neanderthals, or any species without a connection to saving existing endangered species. This self-imposed framework allows them to move forward responsibly while the broader scientific and regulatory community catches up. For ambitious professionals, this demonstrates the value of establishing personal or organizational ethical standards early, especially when operating in emerging fields where external regulations don't yet exist.
Conservation and Innovation Must Work Together at Scale
Lamm argues that traditional conservation efforts, while valuable, cannot address species loss at the current rate of environmental destruction. (14:03) With predictions of losing 50% of biodiversity by 2050, he advocates for new technological tools to complement existing conservation work. Colossal makes all their de-extinction technologies available for free to conservation partners and raised an additional $50 million for their foundation to fund other conservation research. This approach shows how breakthrough innovations can amplify traditional efforts rather than replace them, creating a model for professionals working in any field where existing solutions aren't scaling fast enough to meet urgent challenges.
Revenue-Less Businesses Can Create Massive Value Through Spin-offs
Despite having no revenue and being "really good at losing money," Colossal has achieved a $10 billion valuation by spinning out three companies from their research. (15:19) These include FormBio (computational biology platform worth over $100 million), a plastic-breaking technology company, and a third undisclosed company also worth over $100 million. This demonstrates how deep R&D can create multiple valuable applications beyond the original mission. For professionals in research-heavy fields, this shows how to extract value from foundational research while maintaining focus on long-term goals, creating multiple revenue streams from a single innovation platform.
Address Critics by Running Toward Them, Not Away
When facing scientific criticism about whether their dire wolves are "real," Lamm's response was to hire his biggest critic, Beth Shapiro, as Chief Science Officer. (26:55) Rather than dismissing opposition, Colossal actively seeks out critics to understand their concerns and improve their approach. This strategy not only strengthened their scientific credibility but also demonstrated intellectual honesty about the limitations and challenges of their work. For professionals facing criticism or skepticism about their innovations, this illustrates how engaging with critics constructively can actually strengthen your position and improve your outcomes.
Statistics & Facts
- Dire wolves share 99.5% of their DNA with gray wolves, making genetic modification feasible rather than requiring complete reconstruction from ancient DNA. (07:00)
- Scientists predict we could lose up to 50% of all biodiversity between now and 2050 if current trends continue, creating an urgent need for new conservation technologies. (14:03)
- Woolly mammoths are 99.6% genetically identical to Asian elephants - closer than Asian elephants are to African elephants - making mammoth de-extinction scientifically feasible. (29:46)
