‘My Data Proves SEO is NOT Dead’ + How to Rank #1 on Google & AI
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this episode of Marketing Against the Grain, Ethan Smith, CEO of Graphite, debunks the myth that SEO is dead while exploring the rising importance of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). (02:59) Smith shares compelling data showing that organic search traffic remains flat rather than declining, while LLM usage is growing 100% year-over-year but still represents only one-fifteenth the size of Google Search. (03:08) He advocates for a unified strategy that treats SEO and AEO as complementary rather than competing channels, emphasizing that most AEO tactics heavily overlap with proven SEO strategies. The discussion covers practical tactics for appearing in ChatGPT and Google's AI mode, the importance of off-site citations versus traditional link building, and why early-stage companies can actually win faster in AEO than traditional search. • Main theme: SEO remains vital while AEO presents new opportunities, requiring an integrated approach rather than separate strategies
Speakers
Ethan Smith
Ethan Smith is the CEO of Graphite, a company specializing in search engine optimization and answer engine optimization analytics. He has been working in technical SEO since 2008 and is recognized as a leading expert in the intersection of traditional search and AI-powered answer engines. Smith has extensive experience helping companies like Notion and Webflow optimize their search strategies.
Kipp Bodnar
Kipp Bodnar is the host of Marketing Against the Grain and a marketing executive at HubSpot. He focuses on helping businesses navigate evolving marketing strategies and technologies.
Kieran Flanagan
Kieran Flanagan is the co-host of Marketing Against the Grain and a marketing expert at HubSpot. He specializes in growth marketing and search engine optimization strategies for scaling businesses.
Key Takeaways
SEO Traffic Remains Stable Despite AI Growth
Contrary to popular belief, organic search traffic is not declining significantly. (02:59) Smith's data shows SEO traffic is flat or down only 0.5-1%, not experiencing the dramatic drops many fear. While LLM usage is growing 100% year-over-year, it's still only one-fifteenth the size of Google Search. This means the pie is expanding rather than shifting from search to AI. For marketers, this reinforces that SEO should remain a core channel strategy while gradually incorporating AEO tactics rather than abandoning search optimization entirely.
Early-Stage Companies Can Win Faster with AEO
Unlike traditional SEO where authority and domain age matter significantly, Answer Engine Optimization offers faster time-to-impact for newer companies. (08:20) Smith explains that for competitive queries like "best marketing software," it's often third-party sites mentioning brands rather than the brands themselves that appear in AI answers. Early-stage companies can get mentioned on these citing sources and immediately compete with established players, whereas SEO typically requires months or years to build domain authority.
Long-Tail Queries Are Massive in LLMs
The average LLM prompt contains around 60 words compared to the 2-3 word Google searches, creating enormous long-tail opportunities. (17:00) People ask highly specific questions like "what's the best website builder with design portfolio features, SEO functionality, Stripe integration, and specific language support." Companies can win these ultra-specific queries by creating content that answers these detailed questions, often becoming the only relevant result for niche use cases.
Mine Your Own Data for Question Insights
Since LLMs don't provide first-party prompt data like Google does with keyword tools, companies must get creative about understanding what questions people ask. (22:58) Smith recommends analyzing Reddit discussions about your product, customer support tickets, sales call transcripts, and user feedback. Run these through LLMs to identify the most common questions and themes. This first-party data reveals the long-tail questions people actually ask about your product or service.
Citations Work Differently Than Traditional Links
In AEO, success depends on getting mentioned on the specific URLs that appear in AI citations, not just any high-authority domain. (33:31) Unlike SEO where a link from the New York Times homepage helps your entire site, AEO requires mentions on the exact pages that LLMs cite for relevant queries. This means tracking which URLs appear in AI answers for your target questions, then pursuing mentions specifically on those pages rather than general high-authority link building.
Statistics & Facts
- LLM usage is growing 100% year-over-year but represents only one-fifteenth the size of Google Search traffic. (03:08) This data comes from Ethan Smith's analysis across thousands of websites, showing that while AI tools are rapidly growing, traditional search remains the dominant channel.
- The average LLM prompt contains approximately 60 words compared to traditional Google searches of 2-3 words. (17:00) This statistic from Similar Web demonstrates how people interact differently with AI, asking more detailed, conversational questions rather than keyword-based queries.
- Organic search traffic has only decreased by 0.5-1% despite widespread claims that SEO is dying. (02:59) Smith's data across thousands of websites contradicts popular narratives about dramatic SEO declines, showing the channel remains remarkably stable.
