Sir Tony Robinson Meets Janina Ramirez - The Real Women Behind the Medieval Myths
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this captivating episode, Oxford historian Janina Ramirez joins Sir Tony Robinson to discuss her book "Legendre," which reveals the real stories of medieval women whose lives have been mythologized and twisted by nationalistic agendas. (00:57) The conversation explores how legendary figures like Joan of Arc, Lady Godiva, and others have been misrepresented throughout history to serve political purposes. (23:15)
- Main themes: The systematic misrepresentation of medieval women in history, the invention of national myths, and how women's real stories have been buried under layers of political manipulation across centuries
Speakers
Janina Ramirez
Janina Ramirez is a historian at the University of Oxford and visiting professor at Lincoln College. She specializes in medieval history, with a PhD focused on decoding the symbolism of birds in medieval contexts. Despite her impressive academic credentials, she has a rock and roll side - she performed in three bands, including one called Lolita when she was 13, and continued gigging in Camden while studying at Oxford. (01:58)
Sir Tony Robinson
Sir Tony Robinson is a renowned British actor, comedian, and television presenter best known for his work on historical programs including Time Team. He has inspired countless people to develop a love for history through his engaging storytelling, humor, and archaeological discoveries. Robinson's accessible approach to history has made complex historical topics understandable and exciting for general audiences.
Key Takeaways
History is Written by Those Who Survived Political Changes
Ramirez explains that medieval women had extraordinary agency and power that we've largely forgotten. Women like Godgifu (Lady Godiva) owned vast estates and survived through multiple conquering regimes, remaining the only named landowning woman in the Domesday Book. (45:27) However, centuries of selective editing, book burning, and ideological changes have systematically removed women who pushed against norms, leaving us with sanitized versions that serve later political agendas.
The Reformation Devastated Women's Opportunities
Before the Reformation, medieval women had access to powerful roles through monastic communities that served as "powerhouses" - functioning as palaces, industrial sites, educational institutions, and hospitals. (35:15) The closure of female monasteries during the Reformation eliminated these safe spaces where women excelled in medicine, education, and leadership, forcing even elderly nuns who had known no other life back to domestic roles under male authority.
National Myths are Modern Inventions
Medieval people didn't think in terms of countries or nations - these concepts emerged around the French Revolution in 1789. (18:37) When asked where they were from, medieval women like Elizabeth of Thuringia would identify through family lineage, local communities, and religious affiliations rather than national identity. The manipulation of historical figures like Joan of Arc for nationalist purposes is a relatively recent phenomenon that has little to do with their actual lived experiences.
Women Used Extreme Performance to Gain Agency
Medieval mystics like Catherine of Siena employed shocking physical performances - self-starvation, self-harm, and claiming mystical visions - as a strategic way to gain recognition and influence in male-dominated societies. (40:29) These seemingly bizarre behaviors were often calculated moves to achieve celebrity status that allowed them to advise kings, queens, and popes. Their extreme performances served as a pathway to political and spiritual authority that would otherwise have been impossible for women to attain.
Economic Independence Created Women's Power
Women in fishing communities and textile-producing regions had significantly more autonomy because their economic contributions were essential. (55:27) The wool trade, which made Britain rich, depended heavily on women's spinning and weaving expertise. Communities like the Beguines in Belgium created the first women-only collectives, living independently while funding themselves through textile crafts - demonstrating that economic independence was key to women's freedom and agency.
Statistics & Facts
- During the Black Death, France lost nearly 50% of its population while England lost 20-30%, creating the devastating conditions that shaped Joan of Arc's world. (24:52)
- Poland was erased from maps for 180 years, split between Prussia, Austria, and Russia, yet people still rallied around Queen Jadwiga's tomb to maintain their national identity. (20:44)
- During the September Massacres of the French Revolution, nearly 2,000 people were killed at the guillotine in just four days, demonstrating the extreme bloodshed that motivated Charlotte Corday's actions. (28:32)
