RF Kuang - To Hell with Love
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
This captivating podcast features bestselling novelist Rebecca F. Kuang in conversation with Hannah MacInnis about her latest novel, "Katabasis." (02:42) Kuang shares her deeply personal journey of writing this surreal exploration of hell and recovery, drawing from her challenging first year in a PhD program when her husband battled a serious illness. The conversation delves into the literal and metaphorical meanings of descending to hell, the question of eternity, and the imaginative expanse of Kuang's literary vision in an age where freedom of expression is under threat.
- The episode explores the creative process behind "Katabasis," examining how personal trauma transforms into literary art while addressing broader themes of academic culture, feminism, and the nature of immortality.
Speakers
Rebecca F. Kuang
Rebecca F. Kuang is one of the most successful authors of her generation, known for her award-winning novel "Babel" - a triumph of postcolonial fantasy - and the internationally bestselling "Yellowface," a publishing industry satire. She is currently pursuing her PhD and teaches in MFA programs, having established herself as a major voice in contemporary speculative fiction.
Hannah MacInnis
Hannah MacInnis is a host and interviewer for How To Academy, London's home of big thinking. She conducts in-depth conversations with notable authors and intellectuals, bringing out the deeper themes and personal insights behind their work.
Key Takeaways
Writing as a Tool for Processing Trauma
Kuang reveals that she doesn't write for catharsis but rather to make her "feelings and thoughts legible even to me." (07:16) During her husband's health crisis in their first year of PhD studies, she experienced severe depression and suicidal ideation. Writing became a way to articulate the "cloud that was swirling around" her, helping her pin down and record where her mind was during that dark period. This approach transforms personal suffering into literary exploration without requiring resolution or healing.
Overcoming Creative Terror Through Authenticity
Kuang describes oscillating between "absolute terror of revealing any part of myself to an audience" and the realization that authentic, messy work resonates more than safe content. (10:05) She argues that evolutionary instincts make us uncomfortable with scrutiny, but when she pushes past this fear, she creates her best work. The key insight is that audiences crave "ugly, raw, messy stuff" because it reflects their own experiences of navigating life's complexities.
The Library as Free MFA Program
Kuang's most practical advice centers on self-directed learning through close reading. (56:05) Having never taken creative writing classes in college or done an MFA, she advocates for systematic analysis of admired texts. The process involves reading for entertainment first, then returning to ask: "What's really working here? What are the specific craft choices the author has made?" This disciplined approach to reverse-engineering successful writing techniques provides accessible education for aspiring authors regardless of their financial situation.
Rejecting Academic Delusion for Clear-Eyed Engagement
Through her character Alice, Kuang explores the dangerous seduction of academic validation and the "cult of the male genius." (33:10) She contrasts Alice's desperate craving for validation from a broken system with her own generation's approach - going in "with our eyes fully open" about academia's precarious state. The takeaway is understanding that institutional corruption exists while choosing not to invest your entire being in systems that may collapse, maintaining both engagement and critical distance.
Embracing Mortality as a Source of Meaning
Drawing from philosopher Martin Hagglund's work, Kuang argues that eternal existence would be "horrible" and "monotonous" because nothing would matter without vulnerability and stakes. (19:11) She describes how this realization was liberating: "You don't have to be so scared of things disappearing in this life. You just have to be really glad that you get to spend the time with them you do." This perspective reframes mortality from something to fear into the very source of life's preciousness and meaning.
Statistics & Facts
- Kuang mentions that PhD programs in the US typically last five to seven years and are fully funded, providing students with pay to "sit on your ass and read books and take classes." (03:58)
- She notes that the 1980s were "not twenty years ago" but rather forty years ago, highlighting how our perception of time can be distorted when we subtract from 2000 rather than the current year. (27:00)
- Kuang reveals she's currently in her first year of marriage while discussing the complexities of writing about love and relationships. (52:42)
