20th Anniversary celebration with typographers and lettering artists Marian Bantjes, Oded Ezer, Jessica Hische, Tobias Frere-Jones, Matthew Carter, and Kris Holmes
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
This special 20th anniversary episode of Design Matters celebrates typography and lettering through excerpts from interviews with six celebrated practitioners: Marian Bantjes, Oded Ezer, Jessica Hische, Tobias Frere-Jones, Matthew Carter, and Kris Holmes. Debbie Millman shares highlights from conversations spanning 2010-2019, revealing how these masters approach their craft with both technical precision and artistic vision. (03:25)
- The episode explores the intersection of visual communication and written language, from traditional calligraphy to digital type design
Speakers
Marian Bantjes
Canadian artist celebrated for her intricately patterned images and custom lettering. She is the author of the book "I Wonder," which seamlessly integrates visual and written communication in revolutionary ways.
Oded Ezer
Tel Aviv-based typographer and artist known for experimental typography projects like "Tortured Letters" and "Typosperma." He authored "The Typographer's Guide to the Galaxy" and pushes boundaries by making type "behave" rather than just look.
Jessica Hische
Author and lettering artist who gained recognition through her "Daily Drop Cap" project and later created influential websites like "Should I Work for Free." She designs stamps, book covers, and other commercial lettering work while maintaining numerous creative side projects.
Tobias Frere-Jones
Designer of popular typefaces including Gotham, Retina, and Interstate. He worked at Font Bureau for seven years and is known for creating "working class" typography that draws inspiration from unconventional sources like highway signage.
Matthew Carter
One of the world's most celebrated typeface designers, creator of Georgia, Yale, and Roster typefaces. He learned traditional punch-cutting techniques and witnessed typography's evolution from hand-crafted processes to digital tools.
Kris Holmes
Calligrapher and typeface designer who studied under Lloyd Reynolds at Reed College. She worked briefly at Hallmark Cards, studied dance in New York, and later became a lettering designer, emphasizing calligraphy as both beautiful and efficient writing.
Key Takeaways
Visual Communication Must Integrate with Text, Not Supplement It
Marian Bantjes emphasized that graphics should not be superfluous to text but completely integrated with it. (05:13) She created her book "I Wonder" to demonstrate that visual elements can represent the entire reading experience, not just accompany it. For example, her essay about Saskatoon signage was rendered in fluorescent colors and written in the actual language of signs, making the entire piece feel like experiencing those signs throughout the city. This approach transforms passive reading into active visual experience.
Typography Should Behave, Not Just Look Good
Oded Ezer challenges designers to ask "how does this type behave?" instead of "how does this type look?" (15:36) This fundamental shift in thinking allows designers to activate typography like a person sitting in front of you, achieving higher levels of communication. His experimental work, like making letters from sperm cells or having viewers eat typography, demonstrates how type can embody concepts and emotions rather than simply displaying them.
Daily Practice Creates Unexpected Opportunities
Jessica Hische's Daily Drop Cap project, started to maintain discipline during freelancing, became a cultural phenomenon that launched her career. (24:24) The key was consistency over perfection—people began paying attention after seeing regular posting for one to two months. This demonstrates how committed daily practice, even in small increments, can build both skills and audience in ways that sporadic bursts of effort cannot achieve.
Draw Inspiration from Unconventional Sources
Tobias Frere-Jones created the Interstate typeface by studying highway signs from the Brooklyn Heights Promenade, recognizing that these utilitarian forms had qualities useful for running text. (33:50) He kept the "clunk" and personality of highway signage while removing elements that didn't help, like awkward weight distribution and weird curves. This approach of finding typography inspiration outside traditional design sources can lead to distinctive and widely-adopted typefaces.
Master Traditional Techniques to Understand Digital Tools
Matthew Carter's experience with smoke proofs—holding metal punches over candle flames to see letter impressions—illustrates the painstaking precision required before digital typography. (39:17) Understanding these traditional methods provides crucial context for modern type design, where designers can see their work in real time. This historical knowledge helps contemporary designers appreciate both the efficiency of current tools and the discipline required for quality typography.
Statistics & Facts
- Kris Holmes mentioned that "it takes ten years to make a good calligrapher" (48:41), which she heard during her first year and initially thought meant she would never succeed, but she persevered one step at a time.
- Matthew Carter noted that Helvetica was released in Switzerland in 1957, but by 1961 it still could not be typeset in London (46:07), illustrating the four-year lag between typeface introduction and availability that once existed.
- Jessica Hische completed 12 full alphabets for her Daily Drop Cap project, plus a thirteenth guest alphabet (25:45), demonstrating the substantial body of work that emerged from her daily practice commitment.
