Ep. 389: Is the Internet Hijacking Ambition? + Escaping Messaging Hell
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this Deep Questions episode, Cal Newport explores how the internet hijacks our natural ambition instincts and redirects them toward "pseudo excellence" - elaborate performances of greatness rather than actual skill development. (04:16) To help investigate this phenomenon, Cal welcomes his longtime friend Brad Stulberg, author of "The Way of Excellence," for a comprehensive discussion about distinguishing authentic excellence from internet-driven hustle culture.
- Main theme: The contrast between pseudo excellence (elaborate morning routines, complex systems, performative behaviors) and true excellence (deep engagement with worthwhile pursuits aligned with personal values)
Speakers
Cal Newport
Computer science professor at Georgetown University and bestselling author of books including "Digital Minimalism," "Deep Work," and "Slow Productivity." Newport is a leading voice in the fight against digital distraction and the creator of the Deep Work philosophy. He hosts the Deep Questions podcast and regularly writes about technology's impact on human flourishing.
Brad Stulberg
Author and performance coach who has written extensively about excellence, including his latest book "The Way of Excellence: A Guide to True Greatness and Deep Satisfaction in a Chaotic World." Stulberg is also an accomplished powerlifter who competes in drug-tested divisions and uses his athletic pursuits as a laboratory for understanding the principles of authentic excellence. His work has been praised by figures like Steve Kerr and focuses on sustainable approaches to high performance.
Key Takeaways
Distinguish Pseudo Excellence from True Excellence
Stulberg defines pseudo excellence as being "more concerned with the performance of greatness than the actual habits, mindsets, and practices that are required to be great." (04:36) These are people who wake up at 4AM, do multiple cold plunges, take dozens of supplements, and have elaborate morning routines while presenting these activities as necessary for greatness. True excellence, by contrast, involves "involved engagement" and "caring deeply about worthwhile pursuits that align with your values and goals." (26:47) The key insight is that actual excellent performers typically have simple, mundane approaches that they follow consistently over the long haul, rather than complex systems designed for social media content.
Excellence is a Process, Not a Standard
Rather than viewing excellence as achieving a particular ranking or meeting an objective standard, Stulberg emphasizes that "excellence is not a standard, it's a process of becoming." (33:27) This reframes the pursuit from trying to reach a fixed destination to engaging in continuous growth and improvement. The process involves becoming both the best performer and the best person you can be, shaping your character through your pursuits. This perspective makes excellence accessible to anyone willing to engage deeply with their chosen craft, whether they're a world champion or someone just picking up a new skill at age 45.
Use the Internet as a Waystation, Not a Terminal
When discussing how to use technology beneficially for excellence, Stulberg advocates treating "the Internet as a waystation instead of a terminal endpoint." (52:02) If you find a community online, meet those people in real life. If you discover valuable information online, find a real-life coach to discuss it with. The problems arise when people become "terminally online" rather than using digital tools to enhance real-world pursuits. This approach allows you to harness the Internet's power for finding like-minded communities and information while avoiding the trap of endless online engagement that pulls you away from actual skill development.
Model Excellence Through Your Own Behavior
For parents wanting to guide children away from pseudo excellence, Stulberg's advice is simple: "Be about it, don't just talk about it." (57:03) Let your children see you pursuing a craft with genuine dedication - whether it's training at the gym, learning an instrument, working in the garden, or approaching your professional work with deep engagement. Children will learn more from observing authentic excellence in action than from lectures about avoiding superficial online content. The key is showing them what it looks like to care deeply about something worthwhile and work consistently toward mastery, rather than just consuming motivational content about excellence.
Simplicity Beats Complexity in Excellent Performers
Contrary to internet portrayals of elaborate systems and routines, actual high performers tend to have remarkably simple approaches. (14:19) Newport notes that when asked about morning routines, his answer is "boring" - he gets his kids ready for school, walks them to the bus stop, and then starts working. Similarly, Stulberg observes that the best idea people he knows use "a pen and a notebook" rather than complex AI-powered idea management systems. The pattern holds across domains: Olympic athletes, Grammy winners, and successful business leaders typically have compact, simple routines rather than the elaborate multi-hour performances promoted by online influencers. The focus should be on consistency and fundamentals rather than optimization theater.
Statistics & Facts
- The average knowledge worker receives 117 emails daily, most skimmed in under 60 seconds, and 153 Teams messages per weekday, totaling 270 interruptions per day when workers only have 480 total minutes available. (64:07)
- Half of employees surveyed in Microsoft's 2025 Work Trends Index described their jobs as "chaotic and fragmented," with weekend usage of productivity tools like Word, Excel, and PowerPoint overtaking Teams messages as employees carve out time for uninterrupted focus work. (65:00)
- 60% of meetings tracked in the Microsoft study were "ad hoc" - meaning they were scheduled that same day rather than planned in advance, creating significant disruption to people's schedules. (71:21)
