Ellen Huet (on wellness cults)
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
Dax Shepard sits down with award-winning investigative reporter Ellen Huet to discuss her new book "Empire of Orgasm: Sex, Power, and the Downfall of a Wellness Cult." Ellen spent seven years investigating OneTaste, a San Francisco-based company that sold courses on "orgasmic meditation" - a 15-minute clitoral stroking practice. What started as a story about a quirky wellness startup evolved into an expose of alleged forced labor, sexual exploitation, and manipulation. (26:58)
- Ellen reveals how founder Nicole Daedone transformed from a trauma survivor into a charismatic leader who allegedly exploited members sexually and financially, ultimately leading to criminal charges and convictions for forced labor conspiracy.
Speakers
Ellen Huet
Ellen is an award-winning investigative journalist and author who has worked at the San Francisco Chronicle, Forbes, and Bloomberg. She covered the Silicon Valley startup boom during the 2010s, writing notable stories about companies like WeWork, Theranos, and Juicero. Ellen created the award-winning podcast "Foundering" about WeWork and currently lives in a communal housing arrangement with 20 adults and eight children in San Francisco.
Dax Shepard
Host of Armchair Expert podcast and actor who brings his curiosity about human psychology and cult dynamics to this fascinating conversation about power, manipulation, and the fine line between community and control.
Key Takeaways
Intelligence Doesn't Protect Against Cult Recruitment
Ellen emphasizes that joining cults isn't about intelligence - it's about timing and vulnerability. (87:27) The most susceptible people are those going through life transitions like moving, divorce, or career changes. The belief that "smart people don't join cults" is actually dangerous because it prevents recognition of warning signs. Ellen argues that having humility about this vulnerability is protective, as overconfidence can blind us to manipulation tactics.
Social Pressure Overrides Personal Moral Compass
Within tight-knit groups with clear hierarchies, people consistently make decisions based on group approval rather than personal ethics. (89:53) Ellen observed that OneTaste members repeatedly acted against their better judgment to gain status or avoid punishment within the group. This dynamic isn't unique to cults - it's how humans naturally operate in social contexts, making awareness of these pressures crucial for maintaining autonomy.
Trauma Creates Complex Power Dynamics
Nicole's childhood sexual abuse by her father fundamentally shaped OneTaste's philosophy and practices. (82:16) Her inability to process this trauma led to teachings that rationalized sexual exploitation as empowerment. Ellen reveals how Nicole eventually characterized her father as "too expansive for the third dimension" rather than acknowledging his crimes, showing how trauma survivors can perpetuate cycles of abuse while believing they're healing others.
Financial Pressure Escalates Exploitation
When OneTaste faced financial difficulties around 2012-2013, the organization dramatically escalated its exploitative practices. (73:33) Ellen traces how owing money to investor Reese Jones led to increasingly expensive courses and more intensive manipulation tactics. This pattern demonstrates how financial desperation can transform questionable practices into outright criminal behavior, as leaders rationalize escalating harm to save their organization.
Good Ideas Can Be Weaponized for Control
OneTaste took legitimate concepts like personal responsibility and female sexual empowerment and twisted them into tools of manipulation. (65:25) The organization taught that having a "victim mentality" was weak, effectively silencing complaints about abuse. Ellen explains how these philosophies, which contain kernels of truth, become dangerous when used to prevent members from recognizing legitimate harm or seeking help.
Statistics & Facts
- OneTaste generated approximately $12 million in revenue during its operation, with individual courses costing up to $30,000 and intensive programs reaching $50,000. (73:33)
- Research suggests that 10-15% of American women struggle to have an orgasm, which OneTaste specifically targeted in their marketing to vulnerable populations. (32:00)
- According to Ellen, up to 75% of venture capital-backed startups fail, while only about 9% generate significant profits, illustrating the high-risk nature of Silicon Valley investing that enabled OneTaste's initial growth.
