Heal First, Love Better: The Repair Framework That Changes Everything
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
This episode explores the complexities of relationships, boundaries, and emotional regulation with Bay Vočce, a relationship coach and therapist. Bay shares her personal journey from being engaged to a man who turned out to be living a complete lie to finding love with her wife Emmy. (03:00) The conversation delves deep into the importance of nervous system regulation, the difference between boundaries and threats, and how to navigate conflict in intimate relationships. Bay discusses her work with MDMA-assisted couples therapy and provides practical tools for repair and communication. The episode emphasizes that there is no way around the discomfort of building emotional capacity - it requires practice facing tension and friction to develop relationship resilience.
- Main themes include the critical importance of emotional regulation, setting healthy boundaries as self-care rather than control, and accepting that meaningful relationships require navigating uncomfortable friction.
Speakers
Bay Vočce
Bay Vočce is a relationship coach, therapist, and researcher specializing in couples therapy and emotional regulation. She conducts MDMA-assisted couples therapy research with Columbia University and MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies). Bay has appeared as a dating expert on local ABC television and works extensively with clients on conflict resolution and nervous system regulation in relationships.
Lewis Howes
Lewis Howes is the host of The School of Greatness podcast, a former professional athlete turned entrepreneur and author. He regularly interviews experts on personal development, relationships, and peak performance, bringing his own experiences with relationship challenges and personal growth to create meaningful conversations about human potential.
Key Takeaways
Emotional Regulation is the Foundation of All Relationships
According to neuroscientists Bay has interviewed, emotional regulation is the number one skill every human should develop. (17:57) Most people are never taught this crucial skill in school or by parents unless their caregivers were trained in it themselves. The ability to stay regulated when facing conflict, tension, or emotional triggers determines your capacity for intimate relationships. Without this skill, you'll remain reactive and unable to create the safety needed for deep connection. This requires practice - like exposure therapy or cold plunges - gradually building your nervous system's capacity to handle emotional heat and cold while remaining centered.
True Boundaries are Self-Care, Not Control
Many people misunderstand boundaries as trying to get someone else to change their behavior. (19:07) A real boundary is taking care of yourself, not making threats or ultimatums. Instead of saying "Stop talking to me like that," a healthy boundary sounds like "I can't hear you when you speak to me this way, so I'm going to step away for 20 minutes and we can continue when we're both calm." The key difference is that boundaries focus on what YOU will do to take care of yourself, rather than demanding the other person change. This requires knowing your own needs and limits, which many people struggle with due to never having their needs consistently met earlier in life.
Friction and Discomfort are Essential for Relationship Growth
Bay explains that our nervous systems need to come up against friction to build resilience and know we're safe. (14:53) We live in an increasingly frictionless virtual world, but real relationships require navigating tension and conflict. Like building physical strength through resistance training, emotional capacity grows through practicing with small disagreements - like thermostat preferences - before facing bigger challenges. The goal isn't comfort, but building confidence that you can handle difficult conversations and emotional storms without being thrown off center or abandoning yourself.
The Change vs. Accept Dynamic Polarizes Couples
Dr. Alexandra Solomon's framework identifies how couples often split into "change" and "accept" partners. (27:05) The change partner wants therapy, workshops, and constant growth, while the accept partner says "can't we just relax and enjoy what we have?" This polarization creates conflict, but both sides need to move toward each other. Change partners need to sometimes choose play over processing, while accept partners need to engage in growth-oriented conversations. Bay learned this when her wife hit capacity for processing and they took a three-month therapy break, discovering the value of letting things be.
Disillusionment is a Necessary Relationship Phase
Every relationship goes through disillusionment - the painful process of moving from hope that things will be different to acceptance of what actually is. (36:26) This feels like the end because it IS the end of a chapter. You must grieve the relationship you thought you'd have and decide if you can accept your partner and relationship as they are today, not as they might become. This isn't giving up - it's releasing the power struggle and false hope that keeps you stuck. Many couples who survive this process discover they can have multiple "marriages" with the same person as they both evolve.
Statistics & Facts
- According to Bay, every neuroscientist she has interviewed identifies emotional regulation as the number one skill every human being should develop. (17:57) This highlights how critical nervous system regulation is for all aspects of life, not just relationships.
- Bay mentions that probably 99% of people are never taught emotional regulation skills in schools or by parents, unless they have caregivers who were specifically trained in these techniques. (18:25)
- Bay reports conducting MDMA-assisted couples therapy research with Columbia University and MAPS, representing cutting-edge approaches to helping couples regulate their nervous systems during difficult conversations. (55:00)