What Did Men Do to Deserve This? — with Jonathan Haidt and Richard Reeves
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
This episode brings together Scott Galloway with two leading experts on male development: Jonathan Haidt (NYU social psychologist and author of "The Anxious Generation") and Richard Reeves (founding president of the American Institute for Boys and Men). The conversation explores the mounting crisis facing young men in today's society, from declining college enrollment to social isolation and the impact of digital technology. (18:39)
• Main themes: The discussion centers on how modern society is failing young men, the role of technology in stunting their development, and potential solutions for helping them transition successfully into productive, fulfilled adults.Speakers
Scott Galloway
Professor at NYU Stern School of Business and host of the Prof G Pod. Known for his provocative takes on business, technology, and society, Galloway frequently speaks about economic inequality and its impact on young people, particularly men.
Jonathan Haidt
Social psychologist at NYU Stern School of Business and bestselling author of "The Anxious Generation." Haidt's research focuses on moral psychology and the impact of technology on mental health, particularly among young people.
Richard Reeves
Founding president of the American Institute for Boys and Men and former senior fellow at Brookings Institution. Reeves is a leading researcher on gender gaps in education and the challenges facing modern masculinity.
Key Takeaways
Young Men Need Structured Challenges to Develop
Both Haidt and Reeves emphasize that successful male development requires navigating difficult, sustained challenges rather than seeking easy dopamine hits from digital entertainment. (10:41) Haidt explains that boys have historically needed to "prove themselves" through trials and tribulations, developing what he calls "long-term dopamine" - the ability to pursue projects over days and weeks. Without these challenges, males simply don't make the transition to functional adulthood. Richard's example of his son working two jobs daily despite struggling in school demonstrates how work discipline can signal future success, even when academic achievement falters.
Digital Technology Is Creating Addictive Pathways
Haidt presents compelling evidence that the digital environment is particularly devastating to boys, who are more easily distracted and get pulled off developmental paths. (54:02) He argues for age-gating the internet until 16-18, noting that addiction researcher Anna Lemke found that getting addicted to any one thing changes your brain's reward system, making you more susceptible to all other addictions. The cascade typically starts with video games, then progresses to pornography, vaping, sports betting, and cryptocurrency speculation.
Surplus Value Defines Mature Masculinity
Galloway introduces Reeves' concept of "surplus value" as the defining characteristic of manhood - when you generate more jobs, income, love, and care than you consume. (13:34) This framework suggests that males start as "cost centers" who absorb resources and infrastructure investment, but must eventually flip to become "profit centers" who contribute more than they take. This transition requires developing skills, character, and the ability to plant trees whose shade you'll never enjoy - essentially becoming generative rather than extractive in your relationships with others.
Economic Mobility and Male Success Are Interconnected
Reeves connects economic opportunity directly to male flourishing and family formation, noting that marriage rates are higher in low-income communities where men are doing better economically. (37:38) The conversation reveals how societies that can credibly promise "we can all do well" create conditions where young men invest in long-term development. When that promise breaks down, young men become the canaries in the coal mine, showing the earliest signs of social dysfunction through withdrawal from education, work, and relationships.
Alternative Pathways to Higher Education Are Critical
While higher education remains valuable for men, Reeves argues that America's underinvestment in apprenticeships and vocational training creates a "catastrophe for men" at a time when fewer are succeeding in traditional college pathways. (51:52) With a 2.5 million gender gap in college enrollment (equivalent to the population of New Mexico), the lack of robust alternatives becomes a massive anti-young male policy. Countries with strong apprenticeship programs provide dignity and economic pathways without requiring four-year degrees.
Statistics & Facts
- There's a 2.5 million gap between women and men enrolled in college (9 million women vs 6.5 million men), which equals the population of New Mexico and exceeds the population of 13 states. (50:14) Reeves uses this statistic to illustrate the massive scale of male underrepresentation in higher education.
- Only 40% of men have historically reproduced compared to 80% of women throughout human history. (33:04) Galloway cites this to explain the biological basis for male competition and the risk of society reverting to a "natural order" where few men aggregate most mating opportunities.
- Around 9% of high school seniors agreed with "my life often feels useless" from the 1990s through 2010, but this doubled after 2012. (16:58) Haidt presents this as evidence that technology is pulling young people off productive paths, making them feel genuinely useless because they're only consuming rather than creating.
