DreamWorks & the Science of Storytelling | Jeffrey Katzenberg & ChenLi Wang, WndrCo
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
This episode features Jeffrey Katzenberg and ChenLi Wang from WndrCo discussing their unique venture capital firm that combines building companies from scratch with traditional investing. (09:02) Katzenberg reflects on his career evolution from Disney and DreamWorks, sharing how technology has consistently been his competitive advantage in storytelling, while Wang brings product expertise from scaling Dropbox from 25 to 2,000+ employees. (18:57) Together, they've built a hybrid model spanning builds, venture investing, and seed funding, backing category-defining companies like 1Password, Airtable, Harvey, and Granola while also internally building platforms across consumer security, health, and the future of work.
- Main theme: The convergence of storytelling, technology, and venture capital in building transformational companies in the AI era
Speakers
Jeffrey Katzenberg
Former head of Disney Studios and co-founder of DreamWorks, Katzenberg became a studio head by age 30 under mentor Barry Diller at Paramount. He spent decades using technology as a competitive advantage in storytelling, from early digital animation partnerships with Pixar to building the first major animation studio in Silicon Valley with 800 employees in Redwood Shores.
ChenLi Wang
Former Dropbox executive who joined when the company had 25 employees and helped scale it to over 2,000 people. He brings deep product expertise and technical knowledge to WndrCo's investing and company-building activities. Wang previously worked at NEA early in his career, learning from legendary investors Dick Kramlich and Scott Sandell.
Key Takeaways
Storytelling is Fundamental to All Business Success
Katzenberg emphasizes that storytelling isn't just about creating movies or content—it's essential for every aspect of business operations. (27:39) Whether you're recruiting top talent, raising capital from investors, or selling products to customers, you must be able to tell a compelling story about your vision and value proposition. This insight came from Katzenberg's observation that even when recruiting 70 leading research scientists for their longevity company, storytelling was crucial to explain "why now, and why us." The best founders understand that their technical prowess means nothing without the ability to communicate their vision effectively.
Product Craft and User Obsession Trump Benchmarks
Wang argues that the most successful companies focus on product obsession rather than hitting arbitrary benchmarks or metrics. (35:35) He shares the example of Granola's AI transcription service, which goes beyond basic functionality to spell-check esoteric company names mentioned in conversations—a detail that shows true craft and attention to user experience. This mirrors Steve Jobs' obsession with making even hidden circuit boards beautiful. Wang believes that while benchmarks may look impressive, real differentiation comes from founders who obsess over edge cases and user delight in ways that can't be measured by standard metrics.
Technology Adoption Takes a Decade to Fully Mature
Despite the excitement around AI in 2025, Wang observes that new technology requires significant time to be molded into products that truly impact people's lives. (02:15) Even if AI model development were frozen today, there would still be a decade of work needed to figure out workflows, collaboration methods, and product experiences. This perspective helps explain why WndrCo focuses on the "last mile" of AI implementation—the human ingenuity required to create magical products rather than just raw technological capability. Understanding this timeline helps entrepreneurs focus on sustainable product development rather than chasing hype cycles.
Partnership and Complementary Skills Drive Success
Katzenberg credits his career success to exceptional partnerships where each person brings unique strengths to complement others' weaknesses. (13:34) At WndrCo, Katzenberg handles storytelling while Wang focuses on technical product insights, and their other partners bring social intelligence and operational expertise. This philosophy extends beyond just founding teams—it applies to how they evaluate founders and help them build their own complementary teams. The most successful ventures aren't built by single superstar founders but by teams that understand and leverage each other's unique capabilities.
Build vs. Buy Decision Framework
WndrCo's unique approach involves deciding whether to build companies from scratch or invest in existing ones based on market gaps and founder availability. (22:58) For their longevity company, they identified that 95% of the market was "snake oil sales" driven by supplement sellers rather than actual science, creating an opportunity to build something foundational with leading research scientists. Their process involves extensive market mapping, meeting every interesting founder and practitioner in a space, and developing conviction about where gaps exist. Sometimes this leads to investments in exceptional existing founders, but when they see unique market opportunities without the right founder match, they build internally.
Statistics & Facts
- $700 billion of capital investment is being made by hyperscalers in AI infrastructure over 24 months, according to Katzenberg. (04:34) He emphasizes this "unimaginable number" needs to produce real ROI in the coming years.
- WndrCo's holding company will generate approximately $400 million in free cash flow next year and is extremely profitable and growing. (19:51)
- 95% of the longevity market today consists of "snake oil sales" driven by supplement sellers rather than actual science, according to Katzenberg's market analysis. (23:15)
