What Jason Fried Learned from 26 Years of Building Great Products
Timestamps are as accurate as they can be but may be slightly off. We encourage you to listen to the full context.
Podcast Summary
In this compelling conversation, Jason Fried, founder and CEO of 37signals (makers of Basecamp, HEY, and Ruby on Rails), shares his philosophy on building products with soul and running businesses authentically. (00:32) The discussion explores how Fried draws inspiration from architecture, watches, and handcrafted objects to create software that feels complete and cohesive. (02:06) After 26 years of running 37signals, Fried reveals his biggest realization: he's more interested in making great products than running a business, viewing entrepreneurship simply as a necessary vehicle for creation. (27:07) The conversation also delves into AI's role in product development, the importance of staying true to yourself as a leader, and the concept of "wholeness" as the north star for building both products and companies. (49:38)
- Main Theme: Building products with soul by staying authentic to your vision and creating complete, cohesive experiences rather than assembled pieces.
Speakers
Jason Fried
Jason Fried is the founder and CEO of 37signals, the company behind successful products like Basecamp, HEY email service, and Ruby on Rails framework. With 26 years of experience running the company, Fried has built 37signals into a profitable, bootstrapped business generating tens of millions in revenue annually. He's known for his unconventional approach to business, prioritizing product craftsmanship over traditional growth metrics and maintaining a focus on creating tools that solve real problems for users.
Dan Shipper
Dan Shipper is the founder and CEO of Every, a media and software company focused on AI and modern work. He runs a bootstrapped business with 15 employees that generates over $1.3 million in ARR through a combination of newsletters, AI products, and consulting services. Dan is also the host of the "AI & I" podcast and has been building and writing about technology for several years, with a particular focus on how AI is changing the way we work and create.
Key Takeaways
Focus on Product Creation Over Business Operations
After 26 years of running 37signals, Jason Fried has realized that running a business itself doesn't excite him—making great products does. (27:07) He compares this to John Mayer's quote about writing lyrics because "guitar would sound weird without them"—the business is necessary infrastructure for the real passion of product creation. This insight suggests that entrepreneurs should identify what truly drives them and structure their role accordingly. Rather than forcing yourself into a traditional CEO mold, lean into your natural strengths and interests. If you're passionate about the craft itself, don't delegate it away just because you think you should—maintain that connection to what originally inspired you to start the company.
Embrace Making It Up as You Go
Fried's biggest revelation about leadership is accepting that it's perfectly okay to make decisions without having all the experience or knowledge beforehand. (41:21) He emphasizes that every business is unique, so there's no perfect blueprint from someone else's experience that will apply directly to your situation. The advantage you have as the founder is intimate knowledge of all the "source material"—why decisions were made and how things evolved. This deep understanding is irreplaceable and more valuable than theoretical business expertise. Instead of seeking external validation or trying to follow someone else's playbook, trust your judgment and continue building on the foundation you've already established successfully.
Stay True to Your Authentic Self
The biggest mistakes Fried has made occurred when he tried to do things because he thought he "should" rather than following his instincts. (45:21) He describes these as "making other people's mistakes" by trying to be someone else instead of staying authentic to his own vision and approach. This pattern becomes particularly dangerous during inflection points when rapid growth might make you feel like you need to professionalize or conform to traditional business practices. The key is recognizing that your unique approach is what created your success in the first place. Abandoning authenticity in favor of conventional wisdom often leads to instability because you lose the foundational meaning and vision that holds everything together.
Build Products as Complete Wholes, Not Assembled Parts
Fried draws inspiration from Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, vintage watches, and handcrafted homes where every element serves the overall vision. (52:16) These objects have soul because you can't remove or replace individual components without destroying the integrity of the whole. He applies this philosophy to software development, aiming to create products where every feature, design choice, and interaction contributes to a single, coherent idea. This requires thinking beyond individual features to consider how everything works together as a unified experience. The goal is creating something that feels inevitable and complete, where users sense that every detail was considered as part of a larger vision rather than a collection of separate pieces assembled together.
Leverage AI While Maintaining Human Craft
While Fried acknowledges AI's transformative potential, he maintains a balanced perspective on its role in product development. (14:14) At 37signals, developers use AI for research, API lookups, and some boilerplate code, but they avoid heavy reliance on AI for core coding because it can atrophy the skills they value. Fried is skeptical that AI alone can handle the complex edge cases and seamless integration required for products used by multiple people, though he sees its value for personal tools. The key insight is that different organizations should adopt AI in ways that align with their values and team strengths rather than following a one-size-fits-all approach. Consider AI as a powerful tool that can enhance human capabilities while being thoughtful about which skills and processes you want to maintain direct control over.
Statistics & Facts
- 37signals generates tens of millions in profit annually while maintaining a team small enough that everyone can see each other when they look around the office, demonstrating that significant revenue doesn't require massive headcount scaling.
- Every has reached $1.3 million in ARR with just 15 employees and experienced 50% quarterly growth, showing how AI tools can enable small teams to achieve substantial business results across multiple product lines.
- Jason Fried graduated from college in 1996, perfectly timing his entry into the workforce with the emergence of the commercial internet and graphical web browsers, which he credits as a major luck factor in his career trajectory.
